1 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:10,100 on this episode of skeptic Oh Alex talks 2 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:12,330 with a neuroscientist dr. Mario 3 00:00:18,950 --> 00:00:15,570 Beauregard about his new book brain Wars 4 00:00:21,769 --> 00:00:18,960 there eventually will be another river a 5 00:00:25,429 --> 00:00:21,779 big revolution in science and this will 6 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:25,439 be about mind and consciousness and the 7 00:00:31,490 --> 00:00:28,490 same kind of revolution that they've had 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:31,500 about 100 years ago in physics from 9 00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:34,050 classical physics to quantum physics at 10 00:00:37,610 --> 00:00:36,510 the same time in parallel of course like 11 00:00:41,299 --> 00:00:37,620 you said at the beginning of the 12 00:00:42,799 --> 00:00:41,309 interview if you talk to lay people to 13 00:00:45,139 --> 00:00:42,809 most people did you not believe that 14 00:00:47,869 --> 00:00:45,149 they are strictly biological robots that 15 00:00:50,060 --> 00:00:47,879 they don't have any influence over their 16 00:00:53,139 --> 00:00:50,070 brain activity or what's happening in 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:53,149 the body and so on and so forth and so 18 00:01:02,270 --> 00:00:58,410 it won't be difficult if there's the 19 00:01:07,570 --> 00:01:02,280 start of really a transition in science 20 00:01:10,789 --> 00:01:07,580 within science it will go quickly 21 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:10,799 because the rest of the world you know 22 00:01:17,630 --> 00:01:14,250 is very sympathetic regarding and non 23 00:01:32,530 --> 00:01:17,640 materialist view of consciousness and a 24 00:01:36,380 --> 00:01:34,789 welcome to skeptic aware we explore 25 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:36,390 controversial science with leading 26 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:38,850 researchers thinkers and their critics 27 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:40,890 i'm your host alex a garrison on this 28 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:42,930 episode of skeptic oh we're going to 29 00:01:48,020 --> 00:01:45,810 talk to dr. Mario Beauregard about his 30 00:01:50,749 --> 00:01:48,030 fascinating work in his very compelling 31 00:01:52,190 --> 00:01:50,759 book brain Wars so on this show we've 32 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:52,200 talked quite a bit about the end of 33 00:01:55,969 --> 00:01:54,090 materialism and the evidence for that 34 00:01:57,950 --> 00:01:55,979 which has been mounting and is pretty 35 00:01:59,660 --> 00:01:57,960 overwhelming at this point well here's a 36 00:02:01,399 --> 00:01:59,670 guy who's really pulled all that 37 00:02:03,980 --> 00:02:01,409 together in a way that really creates 38 00:02:07,070 --> 00:02:03,990 quite an overwhelmingly convincing case 39 00:02:09,910 --> 00:02:07,080 for anyone who dares to look here's my 40 00:02:13,490 --> 00:02:09,920 interview with dr. Mario Beauregard 41 00:02:16,309 --> 00:02:13,500 today we welcome dr. Mario Beauregard to 42 00:02:18,620 --> 00:02:16,319 skeptic Oh dr. bogard is an associate 43 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:18,630 research professor at the neuroscience 44 00:02:22,729 --> 00:02:20,310 research center at the university of 45 00:02:25,130 --> 00:02:22,739 montreal he has a PhD in neuroscience 46 00:02:27,259 --> 00:02:25,140 also from the University of Montreal and 47 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:27,269 he also has two post doctorate 48 00:02:31,610 --> 00:02:29,250 fellowships in experimental 49 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:31,620 neuropsychology he's the author of over 50 00:02:37,039 --> 00:02:33,930 a hundred publications in neuroscience 51 00:02:39,250 --> 00:02:37,049 psychology and psychiatry and he's here 52 00:02:43,370 --> 00:02:39,260 today to talk about his latest book 53 00:02:46,699 --> 00:02:43,380 brain Wars the scientific battle over 54 00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:46,709 the existence of the mind and proof that 55 00:02:52,550 --> 00:02:49,910 will change the way we live our lives 56 00:02:55,759 --> 00:02:52,560 Mario thank you very much for joining me 57 00:03:01,160 --> 00:02:55,769 today on skeptic oh and welcome thank 58 00:03:03,620 --> 00:03:01,170 you so your book brain Wars and this 59 00:03:06,650 --> 00:03:03,630 battle over over whether we are really 60 00:03:09,710 --> 00:03:06,660 just biological robots as our friend 61 00:03:12,140 --> 00:03:09,720 Stephen Hawking likes to say is a 62 00:03:14,060 --> 00:03:12,150 frequent topic on this show so I think 63 00:03:17,479 --> 00:03:14,070 you're going to find an audience who is 64 00:03:19,550 --> 00:03:17,489 well aware of a lot of the issues but 65 00:03:21,470 --> 00:03:19,560 you really do a great job of kind of 66 00:03:23,660 --> 00:03:21,480 presenting it in your book and pulling 67 00:03:26,270 --> 00:03:23,670 it all together can you tell us a little 68 00:03:31,849 --> 00:03:26,280 bit briefly about what your book is 69 00:03:34,479 --> 00:03:31,859 about well the starting point is the 70 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:34,489 what we call the the modern scientific 71 00:03:41,140 --> 00:03:37,890 worldview so it's the the world view 72 00:03:44,300 --> 00:03:41,150 that is based on classical physics and 73 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:44,310 this this view 74 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:47,010 is based on a number of fundamental 75 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:51,290 assumptions like materialism determinism 76 00:04:00,380 --> 00:03:55,770 reductionism also so applied to mine and 77 00:04:03,770 --> 00:04:00,390 brain means that for instance everything 78 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:03,780 in the universe is only matter and 79 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:07,050 energy therefore the brain is a physical 80 00:04:13,100 --> 00:04:11,010 object to and the mind can be reduced 81 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:13,110 strictly to electrical and chemical 82 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:17,010 processes in the brain it means also 83 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:20,250 that everything is determined from a 84 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:23,850 material or physical point of view so we 85 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:28,130 don't have any freedom we're like 86 00:04:34,790 --> 00:04:31,410 biological robots totally determined by 87 00:04:39,070 --> 00:04:34,800 our neurons and our genes and so on and 88 00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:39,080 so forth and so we are reduced to 89 00:04:46,730 --> 00:04:43,380 material objects and we are determined 90 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:46,740 by material processes so that's the what 91 00:04:52,580 --> 00:04:49,890 we call the modern scientific worldview 92 00:04:55,730 --> 00:04:52,590 but right the doctor dr. Beauregard is 93 00:04:57,620 --> 00:04:55,740 that really where science is at because 94 00:04:59,810 --> 00:04:57,630 I think that one of the problems that 95 00:05:01,640 --> 00:04:59,820 kind of the people on the street if you 96 00:05:04,159 --> 00:05:01,650 will folks that I talked to who are not 97 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:04,169 engaged in this debate they kind of take 98 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:06,510 a view of it kind of the way that a lot 99 00:05:13,250 --> 00:05:09,210 of folks in American and North America 100 00:05:15,469 --> 00:05:13,260 treat Catholicism or even Christianity 101 00:05:18,350 --> 00:05:15,479 it's like yeah yeah yeah kinda but I 102 00:05:21,409 --> 00:05:18,360 don't really hold to all that I do do 103 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:21,419 most people really believe any of that 104 00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:24,810 and to what extent is that really the 105 00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:28,110 mainstream view within science well it 106 00:05:34,719 --> 00:05:30,960 it's the main string of you would see 107 00:05:38,210 --> 00:05:34,729 still in the biomedical field it is also 108 00:05:40,820 --> 00:05:38,220 in philosophy however in physics 109 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:40,830 everything changed past hundred years 110 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:43,650 ago so they've had their own revolution 111 00:05:49,210 --> 00:05:46,050 from classical physics to quantum 112 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:49,220 physics and the D materialized the world 113 00:05:54,430 --> 00:05:51,690 so the quantum physics is the founding 114 00:05:57,350 --> 00:05:54,440 fathers of quantum physics realized that 115 00:05:58,020 --> 00:05:57,360 you know the world the universe is not 116 00:06:05,220 --> 00:05:58,030 conceived 117 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:05,230 of tiny physical particles like billiard 118 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:08,290 balls for instance but the do you 119 00:06:15,510 --> 00:06:11,890 realize that there's a very important 120 00:06:18,140 --> 00:06:15,520 mental component in the universe and 121 00:06:20,490 --> 00:06:18,150 this relates to the the so-called 122 00:06:24,110 --> 00:06:20,500 measurement problem or the observer 123 00:06:28,170 --> 00:06:24,120 effect so the the physicist and is 124 00:06:30,270 --> 00:06:28,180 instrument they are influencing to 125 00:06:33,530 --> 00:06:30,280 certain extent the outcome of the 126 00:06:36,450 --> 00:06:33,540 experiment at a micro physical level 127 00:06:41,070 --> 00:06:36,460 whether they are measuring either 128 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:41,080 particles or waves and so the the now 129 00:06:48,170 --> 00:06:44,770 it's recognized in quantum physics that 130 00:06:51,150 --> 00:06:48,180 you cannot explain the universe or 131 00:06:52,980 --> 00:06:51,160 understand the universe without making 132 00:06:56,580 --> 00:06:52,990 reference to what we call mind in 133 00:07:00,090 --> 00:06:56,590 consciousness but in bio in the 134 00:07:02,970 --> 00:07:00,100 biomedical field including neuroscience 135 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:02,980 it's a different ballgame most 136 00:07:08,610 --> 00:07:05,770 scientists in my field research for 137 00:07:11,010 --> 00:07:08,620 instance are not aware of these they 138 00:07:13,530 --> 00:07:11,020 don't know very well quantum physics and 139 00:07:15,930 --> 00:07:13,540 they are not aware that that there's 140 00:07:19,140 --> 00:07:15,940 been a revolution hundred years ago 141 00:07:21,450 --> 00:07:19,150 regarding these fundamental issues and 142 00:07:25,530 --> 00:07:21,460 it's it's the same thing pretty much 143 00:07:27,870 --> 00:07:25,540 also in other fields like psychiatry for 144 00:07:32,030 --> 00:07:27,880 instance so it's a week we shine a lot 145 00:07:35,370 --> 00:07:32,040 of biological reductionism in psychiatry 146 00:07:38,310 --> 00:07:35,380 especially with regard to the use of 147 00:07:41,790 --> 00:07:38,320 drugs for instance and so on and so 148 00:07:45,690 --> 00:07:41,800 forth and so in philosophy it's the same 149 00:07:48,510 --> 00:07:45,700 thing still so even though physicist 150 00:07:52,170 --> 00:07:48,520 have shown that the universe cannot be 151 00:07:56,910 --> 00:07:52,180 reduced to a physical machine nearly 100 152 00:08:00,000 --> 00:07:56,920 years ago the most scientists and 153 00:08:03,300 --> 00:08:00,010 philosophers are either not aware of 154 00:08:05,190 --> 00:08:03,310 that or they don't want to you know they 155 00:08:07,050 --> 00:08:05,200 don't want to accept that but don't we 156 00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:07,060 have to be a little bit careful when we 157 00:08:11,860 --> 00:08:09,910 tread into the physicist territory and 158 00:08:13,090 --> 00:08:11,870 quantum physics in particular 159 00:08:16,330 --> 00:08:13,100 because there's a lot of pushback 160 00:08:19,420 --> 00:08:16,340 there's a whole tsunami of pushback on 161 00:08:21,370 --> 00:08:19,430 the the way that quantum physics has 162 00:08:23,260 --> 00:08:21,380 been kind of weaved into a lot of New 163 00:08:25,150 --> 00:08:23,270 Age thought and i'm not saying at all 164 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:25,160 that that's what you're doing but i 165 00:08:30,100 --> 00:08:27,650 think there's a lot of fuzziness there I 166 00:08:33,250 --> 00:08:30,110 think what we can say at the very least 167 00:08:36,130 --> 00:08:33,260 is that it's clearly an unsettled issue 168 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:36,140 and we have to take seriously the 169 00:08:40,230 --> 00:08:38,330 thought that that quantum physics 170 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:40,240 suggests that consciousness may be 171 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:43,010 fundamental in the way that we generally 172 00:08:48,220 --> 00:08:45,890 think of matter as being fundamental so 173 00:08:50,470 --> 00:08:48,230 I'm with you on all that yeah yeah that 174 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:50,480 that's exactly my point yes yeah I just 175 00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:52,730 don't want to get into that whole battle 176 00:08:58,240 --> 00:08:55,310 of you know whether the observer effect 177 00:09:00,250 --> 00:08:58,250 really is and whether shut up and 178 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:00,260 calculated all that kind of stuff I just 179 00:09:03,370 --> 00:09:01,970 think but I do think we can't shy away 180 00:09:05,140 --> 00:09:03,380 from it and that's one of the things I 181 00:09:07,060 --> 00:09:05,150 really appreciate about your book is you 182 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:07,070 don't shy away from anything but we 183 00:09:12,430 --> 00:09:08,690 can't shy away from the fact that 184 00:09:15,910 --> 00:09:12,440 quantum physics may very well be best 185 00:09:18,340 --> 00:09:15,920 interpreted as being supportive of these 186 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:18,350 ideas that you're talking about but let 187 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:19,610 me switch gears for a minute because 188 00:09:23,190 --> 00:09:21,410 what I really one of things I want to 189 00:09:26,350 --> 00:09:23,200 focus on and I just mentioned it I 190 00:09:28,690 --> 00:09:26,360 really appreciate that you're clear 191 00:09:31,300 --> 00:09:28,700 right from the start about talking in 192 00:09:34,300 --> 00:09:31,310 these kind of military terms it's a 193 00:09:36,370 --> 00:09:34,310 brain war it's a battle over silence so 194 00:09:37,630 --> 00:09:36,380 I want to spend a good deal of time 195 00:09:40,180 --> 00:09:37,640 talking about the book and the 196 00:09:42,430 --> 00:09:40,190 particular issues that you bring up 197 00:09:44,460 --> 00:09:42,440 because I think as you just said one 198 00:09:47,110 --> 00:09:44,470 thing it does is it how easily 199 00:09:49,870 --> 00:09:47,120 falsifiable some of the materialist 200 00:09:52,350 --> 00:09:49,880 positions are but at the same time I 201 00:09:56,590 --> 00:09:52,360 want to understand I want you to tell us 202 00:09:58,690 --> 00:09:56,600 why we are in this war at the end of the 203 00:10:00,790 --> 00:09:58,700 day why there is this battle because I 204 00:10:03,580 --> 00:10:00,800 think a lot of folks tuned into the fact 205 00:10:06,340 --> 00:10:03,590 that there's a war that there is a 206 00:10:08,290 --> 00:10:06,350 battle but they don't get it I mean so 207 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:08,300 you've done these experiments that find 208 00:10:12,550 --> 00:10:10,610 that people can control their brain so 209 00:10:16,660 --> 00:10:12,560 what why is there a war why is there a 210 00:10:20,250 --> 00:10:16,670 battle well because there's a commitment 211 00:10:23,380 --> 00:10:20,260 to a certain form of ideology in 212 00:10:25,090 --> 00:10:23,390 mainstream science why was there such a 213 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:25,100 good life because the at 214 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:27,470 the beginning of at the birth of modern 215 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:31,730 science the scientists decided to keep a 216 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:33,530 certain distance from the church the 217 00:10:40,410 --> 00:10:36,170 power of the church understandably and 218 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:40,420 that has helps you know science to 219 00:10:47,380 --> 00:10:43,010 evolve new way to make great progress 220 00:10:51,820 --> 00:10:47,390 but at the same time the the founding 221 00:10:54,820 --> 00:10:51,830 fathers of modern science rejected in a 222 00:10:58,060 --> 00:10:54,830 certain sense the domain of subjectivity 223 00:11:00,400 --> 00:10:58,070 the first person perspective mental 224 00:11:04,510 --> 00:11:00,410 experiences these things were considered 225 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:04,520 to be only secondary care qualities and 226 00:11:09,850 --> 00:11:08,330 the at the beginning data that these 227 00:11:12,540 --> 00:11:09,860 things were not that important they 228 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:12,550 decided to focus more on the physical 229 00:11:20,050 --> 00:11:16,250 you know the physical world matter as we 230 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:20,060 called them and so this this point of 231 00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:24,370 view became dominant made progress 232 00:11:30,700 --> 00:11:26,630 during the following centuries during 233 00:11:34,540 --> 00:11:30,710 the 17th 18th century and in the 19th 234 00:11:37,570 --> 00:11:34,550 century this materialists and 235 00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:37,580 reductionist point of view became 236 00:11:44,590 --> 00:11:42,560 synonymous with science and in the 20th 237 00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:44,600 century it was it started to be 238 00:11:52,810 --> 00:11:47,470 challenged first by quantum physics but 239 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:52,820 also in other domains but we're now at 240 00:11:57,690 --> 00:11:54,770 the beginning of the 21st century and 241 00:12:00,970 --> 00:11:57,700 this view is still considered to be the 242 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:00,980 you know the norm the standard it's the 243 00:12:07,450 --> 00:12:05,090 mainstream view because it's based on a 244 00:12:11,550 --> 00:12:07,460 number of beliefs assumptions like we 245 00:12:15,510 --> 00:12:11,560 said before but for a long time these 246 00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:15,520 assumptions seemed to explain very well 247 00:12:22,210 --> 00:12:19,040 the phenomena that were under 248 00:12:25,540 --> 00:12:22,220 investigations however now there's 249 00:12:29,820 --> 00:12:25,550 increasing evidence showing that number 250 00:12:32,650 --> 00:12:29,830 of phenomena do not fit within this 251 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:32,660 conventional materialist physical it's 252 00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:35,090 the framework it cannot be explained 253 00:12:40,380 --> 00:12:38,320 very well by this framework and this 254 00:12:42,630 --> 00:12:40,390 is exactly what I'm discussing in my 255 00:12:44,580 --> 00:12:42,640 book brain Wars and I think you do a 256 00:12:46,950 --> 00:12:44,590 wonderful job of it I want to get to 257 00:12:49,140 --> 00:12:46,960 that data I just want to drill into this 258 00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:49,150 point a little bit further because I 259 00:12:54,450 --> 00:12:52,240 think having covered this with a lot of 260 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:54,460 different people I think there's 261 00:12:59,100 --> 00:12:56,890 something a little bit deeper going on 262 00:13:03,180 --> 00:12:59,110 and that's there's a comfort level that 263 00:13:05,790 --> 00:13:03,190 we all have with our consumerism or 264 00:13:08,490 --> 00:13:05,800 materialism our society that we've built 265 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:08,500 and it's a wonderful wonderful society 266 00:13:11,820 --> 00:13:09,490 especially when we look back 267 00:13:14,430 --> 00:13:11,830 historically at how much people have 268 00:13:16,140 --> 00:13:14,440 struggled just to barely survived and we 269 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:16,150 look at all the things that we have in 270 00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:17,410 the cars and the airplanes and the 271 00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:20,740 iphones and all that and we are so amesh 272 00:13:27,630 --> 00:13:24,300 in this materialism that is both 273 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:27,640 consumer materialism but also scientific 274 00:13:33,810 --> 00:13:30,930 materialism that I think it's very very 275 00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:33,820 scary is the only word I can think of 276 00:13:39,540 --> 00:13:36,760 for folks to contemplate anything else 277 00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:39,550 how could we could we really maintain 278 00:13:45,330 --> 00:13:43,390 our way of life that we've all become so 279 00:13:47,550 --> 00:13:45,340 comfortable with that were better than 280 00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:47,560 this other country that we have a right 281 00:13:54,660 --> 00:13:51,040 to to kind of starve that other country 282 00:13:58,470 --> 00:13:54,670 deprive them of money of oil of food 283 00:14:01,500 --> 00:13:58,480 whatever it is it can we really maintain 284 00:14:04,950 --> 00:14:01,510 that if we take the long term larger 285 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:04,960 picture view of what it would mean to be 286 00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:08,770 post materialistic both from a consumer 287 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:10,480 standpoint but also from a scientific 288 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:13,330 standpoint don't the issues get really 289 00:14:19,860 --> 00:14:16,930 big really quick when you think this 290 00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:19,870 thing through yes that's that's a very 291 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:21,790 good point i agree with your analysis 292 00:14:27,330 --> 00:14:25,450 and but there's something else also you 293 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:27,340 scientists are humans and humans have 294 00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:29,530 their own belief systems and they become 295 00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:32,260 attached in the long term with their 296 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:36,310 belief systems so scientists a number of 297 00:14:42,420 --> 00:14:38,530 scientists have been you know have 298 00:14:48,510 --> 00:14:42,430 believed very much in this materialist 299 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:48,520 view for centuries and so it's like it 300 00:14:51,929 --> 00:14:51,370 has become a central dogma in various 301 00:14:56,549 --> 00:14:51,939 fields 302 00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:56,559 including your science so it's it's very 303 00:15:00,479 --> 00:14:58,720 dangerous it's scary for a number of 304 00:15:04,169 --> 00:15:00,489 people if you're starting to challenge 305 00:15:06,210 --> 00:15:04,179 this mainstream Dogma the central dogma 306 00:15:09,139 --> 00:15:06,220 you know it's it's a little bit like in 307 00:15:13,379 --> 00:15:09,149 any other domains of society including 308 00:15:16,619 --> 00:15:13,389 religion if you threaten the beliefs are 309 00:15:17,939 --> 00:15:16,629 specific you know religious groups then 310 00:15:20,839 --> 00:15:17,949 you might be in trouble and that's 311 00:15:23,819 --> 00:15:20,849 exactly what we see also in in science 312 00:15:27,029 --> 00:15:23,829 but at a certain point when the 313 00:15:30,719 --> 00:15:27,039 so-called anomalous data accumulates 314 00:15:33,749 --> 00:15:30,729 that comes a point where the old 315 00:15:35,579 --> 00:15:33,759 paradigm cannot resist anymore and I 316 00:15:38,789 --> 00:15:35,589 believe that now we are in a sort of 317 00:15:41,189 --> 00:15:38,799 transition period Howard a new paradigm 318 00:15:43,199 --> 00:15:41,199 so there there the next Scientific 319 00:15:45,479 --> 00:15:43,209 Revolution should be about one in 320 00:15:48,419 --> 00:15:45,489 consciousness in night you very good 321 00:15:50,729 --> 00:15:48,429 well I think you do a nice job in the 322 00:15:53,729 --> 00:15:50,739 book of kind of pointing out how 323 00:15:56,549 --> 00:15:53,739 dramatic the parent the existing 324 00:15:58,349 --> 00:15:56,559 paradigm is frayed at the edges and I 325 00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:58,359 like the way you start and tie together 326 00:16:04,019 --> 00:16:01,839 a lot of science that we all think we're 327 00:16:06,869 --> 00:16:04,029 very familiar with and we're comfortable 328 00:16:09,779 --> 00:16:06,879 with and you show us how that really 329 00:16:12,839 --> 00:16:09,789 violates this scientific materialism 330 00:16:14,249 --> 00:16:12,849 that we've all come become so accepting 331 00:16:16,829 --> 00:16:14,259 up so maybe you want to talk a little 332 00:16:20,159 --> 00:16:16,839 bit about for example the placebo effect 333 00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:20,169 and also hypnosis and how these two 334 00:16:24,479 --> 00:16:22,720 areas and chap there are chapters in 335 00:16:27,719 --> 00:16:24,489 your book where you do a very nice job 336 00:16:30,599 --> 00:16:27,729 of breaking bringing people through some 337 00:16:33,079 --> 00:16:30,609 of the research in a very accessible way 338 00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:33,089 but tell us the placebo effect in 339 00:16:39,359 --> 00:16:36,639 hypnosis how those violate the very 340 00:16:43,649 --> 00:16:39,369 strict understanding of reductionist 341 00:16:46,789 --> 00:16:43,659 materialism yeah well for for a number 342 00:16:49,859 --> 00:16:46,799 of materialist sinkers and scientists 343 00:16:52,259 --> 00:16:49,869 the mind is totally powerless doesn't 344 00:16:54,689 --> 00:16:52,269 have any kinetic search or any power on 345 00:16:56,699 --> 00:16:54,699 what's going on at the brain level and 346 00:16:59,279 --> 00:16:56,709 also in the body can you break that down 347 00:17:01,969 --> 00:16:59,289 and explain why that would have to be 348 00:17:04,529 --> 00:17:01,979 true if you were a strict scientific 349 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:04,539 materialist they are a number of 350 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:05,250 material 351 00:17:10,819 --> 00:17:08,250 this position so this is a position that 352 00:17:15,650 --> 00:17:10,829 is called ATC nominalism so it means 353 00:17:19,100 --> 00:17:15,660 that the these are these proponents 354 00:17:21,230 --> 00:17:19,110 recognize that my mental processes do 355 00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,240 exist but they are perilous did not have 356 00:17:26,030 --> 00:17:23,760 anemia it cannot exert any influence so 357 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:26,040 that's one position but you have a dear 358 00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:29,370 position like eliminative reductionism 359 00:17:35,090 --> 00:17:32,640 sorry so you're trying to eliminate all 360 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:35,100 mental processes like philosopher Daniel 361 00:17:39,580 --> 00:17:37,650 Dennett or the the church stands for 362 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:39,590 instance so they will say that 363 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:41,850 consciousness and all the other mental 364 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:44,850 processes are simply illusion that the 365 00:17:49,630 --> 00:17:46,850 only thing that exists is 366 00:17:52,490 --> 00:17:49,640 electrochemical activity in the brain 367 00:17:55,310 --> 00:17:52,500 and so if this is true then of course 368 00:17:57,230 --> 00:17:55,320 you cannot influence the activity of 369 00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:57,240 your brain by your beliefs your 370 00:18:03,710 --> 00:18:00,000 expectations you see but that is exactly 371 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:03,720 what the placebo demonstrates that you 372 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:06,690 believes and expectations about false 373 00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:10,730 fake treatment can significantly alter 374 00:18:15,230 --> 00:18:13,200 what's happening in the brain and also 375 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:15,240 in the physiological systems connected 376 00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:18,690 to the brain so for instance during the 377 00:18:24,740 --> 00:18:21,840 last decade there have been several 378 00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:24,750 brain imaging studies about the placebo 379 00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,660 effect and in some cases for instance 380 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:29,760 there was a very interesting study done 381 00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,970 at University of British Columbia they 382 00:18:37,790 --> 00:18:35,280 did the study to measure the impact of a 383 00:18:40,330 --> 00:18:37,800 possible treatment on the people 384 00:18:43,460 --> 00:18:40,340 suffering from severe form of 385 00:18:45,710 --> 00:18:43,470 Parkinson's disease in Parkinson's 386 00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:45,720 disease there is a great level of 387 00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:48,270 destruction of the nerve cells the 388 00:18:53,420 --> 00:18:50,400 Merlin producing a chemical messenger 389 00:18:56,690 --> 00:18:53,430 that we call dopamine dopamine is the 390 00:18:59,290 --> 00:18:56,700 key chemical messenger in motor function 391 00:19:04,420 --> 00:18:59,300 but it's also involved in many other 392 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:04,430 activities but in that specific case the 393 00:19:11,390 --> 00:19:07,890 patient's add a level of destruction of 394 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:11,400 about seventy to eighty percent so that 395 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:14,250 the level of destruction of the nurse 396 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:16,910 cells producing dopamine was quite I and 397 00:19:21,350 --> 00:19:19,170 of course they were severely 398 00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:21,360 pared from a clinical point of view they 399 00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:23,520 had trouble to move they were 400 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:26,580 experiencing a lot of tremors and so the 401 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:28,710 the neurologist doing the the study 402 00:19:34,910 --> 00:19:31,890 presented them a fake treatment it was 403 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:34,920 only distilled water but they beat all 404 00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:37,050 the patients that this was potentially 405 00:19:44,450 --> 00:19:39,900 revolutionary treatment a new treatment 406 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:44,460 for Parkinson's disease and following 407 00:19:49,940 --> 00:19:46,650 the injection after a few minutes the 408 00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:49,950 disc and them with technology that would 409 00:19:57,020 --> 00:19:51,510 call functional magnetic resonance 410 00:19:58,570 --> 00:19:57,030 imaging or fMRI I mean that specific 411 00:20:01,310 --> 00:19:58,580 case it was positron emission tomography 412 00:20:04,610 --> 00:20:01,320 so they were interested in measuring the 413 00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:04,620 activity of dopamine in the brain and so 414 00:20:09,890 --> 00:20:07,200 very rapidly those patients who most 415 00:20:12,350 --> 00:20:09,900 believed in the the fake treatment which 416 00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:12,360 was distilled water they started to 417 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:15,120 produce dopamine and to release dopamine 418 00:20:21,710 --> 00:20:17,970 in their brains in amount comparable to 419 00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:21,720 that seen in young healthy people and in 420 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:24,720 parallel they started to get much better 421 00:20:30,820 --> 00:20:26,850 from a clinical point of view so the add 422 00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:30,830 less tremors they have more strength and 423 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:35,280 so and they were more optimistic at 424 00:20:40,670 --> 00:20:37,770 least for a certain period of time so 425 00:20:43,340 --> 00:20:40,680 this this is a very nice illustration of 426 00:20:45,410 --> 00:20:43,350 the power of what we call mind and by 427 00:20:48,670 --> 00:20:45,420 mine I mean all the mental activity 428 00:20:52,270 --> 00:20:48,680 mental events and in that specific case 429 00:20:55,460 --> 00:20:52,280 this effect is related simply to the 430 00:20:59,030 --> 00:20:55,470 beliefs and also the expectations that 431 00:21:00,920 --> 00:20:59,040 the patients ad regarding the fake 432 00:21:04,130 --> 00:21:00,930 treatment so it's a very nice 433 00:21:08,690 --> 00:21:04,140 illustration another interesting cases 434 00:21:12,770 --> 00:21:08,700 that have acknowledged it knows this is 435 00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:12,780 based on the suggestions coming from a 436 00:21:20,660 --> 00:21:16,320 nip noticed and the the subject of the 437 00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:20,670 experiment accept the suggestions now 438 00:21:25,850 --> 00:21:23,070 they the experts in this field of 439 00:21:29,290 --> 00:21:25,860 research consider that all forms of 440 00:21:32,180 --> 00:21:29,300 hypnosis are in reality self-hypnosis 441 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:32,190 that means that if the subject does not 442 00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:32,970 want to 443 00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:36,809 the suggestions from the hypnotists it 444 00:21:43,580 --> 00:21:41,520 won't work so the again during the last 445 00:21:46,970 --> 00:21:43,590 decade there's been a number of brain 446 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:46,980 imaging studies have been done simply to 447 00:21:51,159 --> 00:21:48,690 measure whether really there's something 448 00:21:54,529 --> 00:21:51,169 happening at the brain level because 449 00:21:57,380 --> 00:21:54,539 skeptics have been arguing for a long 450 00:22:01,070 --> 00:21:57,390 time that it knows this is simply 451 00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:01,080 wishful thinking there it's only based 452 00:22:06,620 --> 00:22:04,140 on social compliance from the end the 453 00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:06,630 subjects the only one please the 454 00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:09,679 hypnotist but there's nothing else so 455 00:22:15,049 --> 00:22:13,200 several research teams have attempted to 456 00:22:17,419 --> 00:22:15,059 research this question using brain 457 00:22:19,490 --> 00:22:17,429 imaging and for instance there was a 458 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:19,500 very interesting study that done at 459 00:22:26,330 --> 00:22:22,710 Harvard they were interested researchers 460 00:22:31,390 --> 00:22:26,340 were looking for the neural correlates 461 00:22:34,220 --> 00:22:31,400 of color vision so you're Carly's are 462 00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:34,230 physical processes in the brain whether 463 00:22:40,159 --> 00:22:37,140 electrical or chemical that are related 464 00:22:42,620 --> 00:22:40,169 to a specific mental activity for 465 00:22:46,820 --> 00:22:42,630 instance it can be perception perception 466 00:22:50,299 --> 00:22:46,830 of God so in that case the disk and 467 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:50,309 subjects highly acknowledged both 468 00:22:57,039 --> 00:22:52,530 subjects which means that these people 469 00:23:03,110 --> 00:22:57,049 add the capacity to enter quite easily 470 00:23:07,549 --> 00:23:03,120 into a trance state deep enough and so 471 00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:07,559 the these subjects were able to to 472 00:23:14,990 --> 00:23:11,809 imagine that they were looking or seeing 473 00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:15,000 different types of patterned colors in 474 00:23:20,990 --> 00:23:17,280 accordance with the suggestions of the 475 00:23:24,260 --> 00:23:21,000 the researchers during the study and so 476 00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:24,270 it was very interesting because the when 477 00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:27,510 they were presenting stimulii that were 478 00:23:33,230 --> 00:23:30,000 colored but the researchers were 479 00:23:38,830 --> 00:23:33,240 trailing the the subjects that distantly 480 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:38,840 were only great the the brain regions 481 00:23:43,039 --> 00:23:41,250 associated with the treatment the 482 00:23:46,039 --> 00:23:43,049 processing of color in the brain were 483 00:23:46,730 --> 00:23:46,049 not actuated even though the simile were 484 00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:46,740 colored 485 00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:50,400 and and the reverse effect was also 486 00:23:58,060 --> 00:23:53,760 measured was also observed in this study 487 00:24:00,830 --> 00:23:58,070 that is when there was no color industry 488 00:24:03,820 --> 00:24:00,840 there were still activation in the 489 00:24:06,770 --> 00:24:03,830 regions of the brain processing colors 490 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:06,780 so again this is a very nice 491 00:24:12,740 --> 00:24:09,450 illustration that what's going on at the 492 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:12,750 minor level can exert a great influence 493 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:15,210 over what's happening in terms of brain 494 00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:18,090 activity right exactly like I said you 495 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:19,740 do a very nice job in the book and I 496 00:24:22,940 --> 00:24:21,450 really encourage folks to get up get the 497 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:22,950 book whether you're a skeptic or 498 00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:25,530 proponent of whatever just a person 499 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:26,880 interested in science I think you'll 500 00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:30,690 enjoy the way that you bring forth this 501 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:32,640 research and you're really document a 502 00:24:37,340 --> 00:24:34,290 way that's easy accessible you do have 503 00:24:39,049 --> 00:24:37,350 nice annotations references to the 504 00:24:41,299 --> 00:24:39,059 research if people want to go look it up 505 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:41,309 but that's all there so the question 506 00:24:48,410 --> 00:24:44,970 then remains so why are we still having 507 00:24:50,660 --> 00:24:48,420 a war you've just now linked up for us 508 00:24:52,790 --> 00:24:50,670 to things that we already were pretty 509 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:52,800 accepting of a we all have heard of 510 00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:55,890 la-z-boy effect we know that every study 511 00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:58,050 every pharmaceutical study every 512 00:25:03,410 --> 00:25:00,559 scientific study has to allow for a 513 00:25:04,940 --> 00:25:03,420 placebo effect so they must recognize 514 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:04,950 that there's some reality to it and 515 00:25:09,620 --> 00:25:07,290 hypnosis has become so common that I 516 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:09,630 think at least one out of three people 517 00:25:14,780 --> 00:25:12,090 have had some kind of hypnosis while at 518 00:25:18,620 --> 00:25:14,790 the dentist or someplace else so given 519 00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:18,630 that we accept these modalities these 520 00:25:23,630 --> 00:25:20,870 treatments these understandings that 521 00:25:25,310 --> 00:25:23,640 violate strict materialism why are we 522 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:25,320 still in the battle why do we still have 523 00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:29,970 the bore well because a number of 524 00:25:35,299 --> 00:25:31,860 scientists considered that you can 525 00:25:37,730 --> 00:25:35,309 interpret these phenomena using a 526 00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:37,740 strictly materialist framework how do 527 00:25:43,610 --> 00:25:40,440 they do that what would be the well they 528 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:43,620 will say that for instance you can 529 00:25:48,980 --> 00:25:46,650 reduce the believes and the expectations 530 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:48,990 of a patients regarding the fake 531 00:25:54,260 --> 00:25:52,290 treatment to electrical and chemical 532 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:54,270 activity in specific portions of the 533 00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:56,250 brain so what they are saying 534 00:26:00,259 --> 00:25:58,559 essentially is that it's the brain 535 00:26:04,759 --> 00:26:00,269 acting upon the 536 00:26:08,869 --> 00:26:04,769 rain there's no you don't need mental 537 00:26:10,909 --> 00:26:08,879 you know functions apart from the brain 538 00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:10,919 to explain this kind of phenomenon 539 00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:13,679 that's what they say but doesn't that 540 00:26:20,779 --> 00:26:17,609 kind of result in some kind of recursive 541 00:26:22,609 --> 00:26:20,789 logic that at the end of the day gets 542 00:26:25,329 --> 00:26:22,619 into all sorts of other problems made 543 00:26:28,159 --> 00:26:25,339 what what is the starting point in their 544 00:26:29,930 --> 00:26:28,169 explanation for such an activity it gets 545 00:26:32,599 --> 00:26:29,940 into the whole neuroplasticity argument 546 00:26:34,369 --> 00:26:32,609 yeah I mean like if we show that neural 547 00:26:36,739 --> 00:26:34,379 plasticity is real and that we can 548 00:26:39,349 --> 00:26:36,749 rewire our brain and you've done some 549 00:26:41,749 --> 00:26:39,359 research on this as well and yet work on 550 00:26:44,060 --> 00:26:41,759 this yeah then doesn't it ultimately 551 00:26:45,859 --> 00:26:44,070 lead to the questionable then what was 552 00:26:48,979 --> 00:26:45,869 the beginning point and wasn't there 553 00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:48,989 some observer some consciousness that 554 00:26:54,499 --> 00:26:51,809 might have started this process yeah but 555 00:26:58,669 --> 00:26:54,509 for them the neuroplasticity is simply 556 00:27:01,940 --> 00:26:58,679 the brain rewiring itself again the 557 00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:01,950 water they don't need you know 558 00:27:07,129 --> 00:27:04,320 consciousness and other mental functions 559 00:27:11,449 --> 00:27:07,139 to explain that that's what he's saying 560 00:27:14,299 --> 00:27:11,459 but I don't think it's it's good 561 00:27:17,479 --> 00:27:14,309 explanation because you know the brain 562 00:27:22,190 --> 00:27:17,489 doesn't the brain to me will respond to 563 00:27:26,659 --> 00:27:22,200 the D expectations or the beliefs and so 564 00:27:29,509 --> 00:27:26,669 if your beliefs are negative about fake 565 00:27:30,919 --> 00:27:29,519 treatments bogus treatment then you will 566 00:27:34,909 --> 00:27:30,929 experience something totally different 567 00:27:36,859 --> 00:27:34,919 so in terms of the chemical messengers 568 00:27:39,889 --> 00:27:36,869 involved in the response and so it's 569 00:27:44,479 --> 00:27:39,899 called in this naseebo effect it's 570 00:27:47,629 --> 00:27:44,489 exactly the reverse so you need a person 571 00:27:49,789 --> 00:27:47,639 and the consciousness in order to 572 00:27:52,099 --> 00:27:49,799 produce phenomenon like that otherwise 573 00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:52,109 doesn't make any sense at all because 574 00:27:58,999 --> 00:27:55,289 the brain itself is quite neutral so you 575 00:28:00,919 --> 00:27:59,009 can influence it in a way or another for 576 00:28:03,739 --> 00:28:00,929 instance we've done another brain 577 00:28:06,829 --> 00:28:03,749 imaging studies positron emission 578 00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:06,839 tomography study and in that case we 579 00:28:14,090 --> 00:28:11,820 measured the activity of serotonin which 580 00:28:17,419 --> 00:28:14,100 isn't very much involved 581 00:28:21,529 --> 00:28:17,429 in mood regulation and also in the 582 00:28:25,970 --> 00:28:21,539 emotions lot of emotions and so we have 583 00:28:29,390 --> 00:28:25,980 our subjects to simply remember and try 584 00:28:32,659 --> 00:28:29,400 to reenact the saddest episode of their 585 00:28:34,159 --> 00:28:32,669 lives and we add another condition in 586 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:34,169 which we ask the same thing but this 587 00:28:41,659 --> 00:28:38,370 time we had to reenact the happiest 588 00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:41,669 moment of their lives and in a matter of 589 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:46,159 only a few minutes we measured either 590 00:28:52,399 --> 00:28:48,690 increases in terms of serotonin 591 00:28:55,149 --> 00:28:52,409 production or decrease increases in the 592 00:28:58,190 --> 00:28:55,159 positive that the active state and 593 00:29:02,120 --> 00:28:58,200 decreases in the negative state the sad 594 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:02,130 state within a few minutes in regions of 595 00:29:09,649 --> 00:29:05,010 the brain related to emotions and mood 596 00:29:12,740 --> 00:29:09,659 regulation you see so this shows really 597 00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:12,750 that the content itself of the the 598 00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:15,840 mental processes their nature will 599 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:19,380 influence the direction that the brain 600 00:29:24,380 --> 00:29:22,650 activity will take so that's why I am 601 00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:24,390 claiming that it's not possible to 602 00:29:31,010 --> 00:29:27,110 interpret this this kind of phenomenon 603 00:29:34,549 --> 00:29:31,020 without you know recognizing the 604 00:29:37,490 --> 00:29:34,559 existence of mental processes it 605 00:29:39,409 --> 00:29:37,500 certainly seems a lot cleaner but it 606 00:29:41,060 --> 00:29:39,419 seems rather obvious what about this 607 00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:41,070 argument and you'll hear this sometimes 608 00:29:45,860 --> 00:29:43,679 too what about folks who say okay just 609 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:45,870 because you've shown that maybe this 610 00:29:51,770 --> 00:29:48,330 strict materialism as you've defined it 611 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:51,780 doesn't work in this situation maybe 612 00:29:56,060 --> 00:29:53,490 there's something else down the road 613 00:29:58,340 --> 00:29:56,070 that quote unquote science will discover 614 00:30:02,240 --> 00:29:58,350 that will explain this we don't need to 615 00:30:03,710 --> 00:30:02,250 jump to this idea of there being a you 616 00:30:05,659 --> 00:30:03,720 inside your head there being 617 00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:05,669 consciousness there being dualism no 618 00:30:09,230 --> 00:30:06,960 matter what word you want to throw at it 619 00:30:11,690 --> 00:30:09,240 we don't need to jump off of the ship 620 00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:11,700 that we're on just yet just because we 621 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:13,049 have this finding well how do you 622 00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:15,450 respond to that well if yeah this is 623 00:30:23,330 --> 00:30:19,200 called promissory materialism and this 624 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:23,340 concept was proposed by a famous 625 00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:26,110 philosopher science karl popper 626 00:30:32,930 --> 00:30:30,220 in the 20th century and but popper 627 00:30:36,450 --> 00:30:32,940 analyzed the text of the materialists 628 00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:36,460 across a number of centuries and the 629 00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,049 funny thing is that you realize that 630 00:30:43,860 --> 00:30:40,480 they were exactly saying the same thing 631 00:30:46,430 --> 00:30:43,870 300 200 years ago or 200 years ago or 632 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:46,440 100 years ago so they've always been 633 00:30:52,110 --> 00:30:50,530 arguing this and so that that's one 634 00:30:57,180 --> 00:30:52,120 aspect of the thing but now we have 635 00:31:01,320 --> 00:30:57,190 evidence showing in my view that this 636 00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:01,330 this material is outlook is simply wrong 637 00:31:08,210 --> 00:31:05,919 it's false and I'm referring here to the 638 00:31:10,380 --> 00:31:08,220 studies about the so-called near-death 639 00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:10,390 phenomenon yeah def experienced 640 00:31:16,140 --> 00:31:13,120 phenomenon especially during cardiac 641 00:31:19,289 --> 00:31:16,150 arrests why is this is important because 642 00:31:23,159 --> 00:31:19,299 during cardiac arrest there's the blood 643 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:23,169 flow to the brain we'll see following a 644 00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:25,090 number of seconds usually quite rapidly 645 00:31:30,299 --> 00:31:28,030 and if you're measuring electrical 646 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:30,309 activity in the brain using an EEG or 647 00:31:37,289 --> 00:31:33,850 electroencephalogram the EG will become 648 00:31:39,570 --> 00:31:37,299 flat within 10 to 20 seconds usually so 649 00:31:41,789 --> 00:31:39,580 in that kind of states according to 650 00:31:45,870 --> 00:31:41,799 mainstream neuroscience higher mental 651 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:45,880 functions are not possible yep during 652 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:49,330 the last 10 years I think there's been 653 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:51,510 four or five different studies 654 00:31:58,409 --> 00:31:54,490 documenting over a hundred cases of 655 00:32:01,200 --> 00:31:58,419 patients who were reported conscious 656 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:01,210 mental activity during a state of 657 00:32:07,950 --> 00:32:03,970 cardiac arrests so this is quite an 658 00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:07,960 interesting and it's very hard for 659 00:32:15,150 --> 00:32:10,240 materialist scientists or philosophers 660 00:32:17,419 --> 00:32:15,160 to interpret this kind of phenomenon yes 661 00:32:19,980 --> 00:32:17,429 indeed you know we've covered that topic 662 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:19,990 extensively on this show yeah but I do 663 00:32:23,580 --> 00:32:22,330 like the way that you summed it up there 664 00:32:27,090 --> 00:32:23,590 and the way that you sum it up in your 665 00:32:31,049 --> 00:32:27,100 book is quite nice so let's get on to 666 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:31,059 the other elephant in the room here dr. 667 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:33,010 Beauregard one of the criticisms of your 668 00:32:39,810 --> 00:32:35,770 work and it's sometimes made explicitly 669 00:32:42,330 --> 00:32:39,820 and sometimes just subtly implied 670 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:42,340 is that you're pushing some kind of your 671 00:32:47,580 --> 00:32:44,770 pedaling some kind of Christian agenda 672 00:32:50,490 --> 00:32:47,590 you really are trying to convert people 673 00:32:53,010 --> 00:32:50,500 to some kind of religion how do you 674 00:32:55,020 --> 00:32:53,020 respond to that well I would say that 675 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:55,030 this is not true at all because I'm not 676 00:33:01,830 --> 00:32:56,890 I'm not religious at all I don't have 677 00:33:05,310 --> 00:33:01,840 any religious affiliation so this is 678 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:05,320 funny to me to hear however I would I 679 00:33:10,650 --> 00:33:07,450 consider myself to be a spiritual person 680 00:33:13,530 --> 00:33:10,660 but I'm not pushing any religious an 681 00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:13,540 agenda here I don't have any ties with 682 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:16,480 religious organizations great and I'm 683 00:33:20,250 --> 00:33:18,250 glad you had a chance to get that out 684 00:33:22,590 --> 00:33:20,260 there because i think it's off and 685 00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:22,600 subtly implied and sometimes not even so 686 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:24,640 subtly implied that that's what's really 687 00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:27,010 going on here and at the same talk about 688 00:33:33,420 --> 00:33:30,640 your good only fall because at the same 689 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:33,430 time though I think there's we can be 690 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:37,330 too reactionary the other way because we 691 00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:39,370 have to I think and I'd loved it i'm 692 00:33:43,470 --> 00:33:41,110 just throwing up my opinion i really 693 00:33:46,110 --> 00:33:43,480 want to get your opinion but i don't 694 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:46,120 think we can play down the spiritual 695 00:33:51,810 --> 00:33:50,050 implications of some of this work for 696 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:51,820 example the near-death experience 697 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:54,330 science we can look at it purely 698 00:33:58,170 --> 00:33:56,410 analytically from the science standpoint 699 00:34:00,450 --> 00:33:58,180 and we can say wow this looks like 700 00:34:02,910 --> 00:34:00,460 there's something there and we would be 701 00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:02,920 very inclined than to take the next step 702 00:34:08,850 --> 00:34:05,710 in terms of what there's telling us 703 00:34:11,310 --> 00:34:08,860 about spirituality and how it does link 704 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:11,320 back at least in some general way to 705 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:13,330 some of the wisdom traditions and 706 00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:15,370 religions that we've had over time so 707 00:34:21,540 --> 00:34:18,250 what is your thought on that do we need 708 00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:21,550 to go there do we need to say hey there 709 00:34:25,770 --> 00:34:23,110 are some spiritual implications here 710 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:25,780 that may have to be dealt with once we 711 00:34:31,380 --> 00:34:29,170 cross this chasm to a post materialistic 712 00:34:34,020 --> 00:34:31,390 world or do we just kind of keep our 713 00:34:37,050 --> 00:34:34,030 nose to the grindstone and ignore all 714 00:34:42,030 --> 00:34:37,060 that and just pretend like it's all just 715 00:34:46,380 --> 00:34:42,040 about materialism no no I can i agree 716 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:46,390 with you because if of course when we 717 00:34:53,010 --> 00:34:49,570 speak of so-called near-death experience 718 00:34:54,089 --> 00:34:53,020 during a cardiac arrest for instance the 719 00:34:57,119 --> 00:34:54,099 people usually are 720 00:34:59,460 --> 00:34:57,129 reanimated within a few minutes usually 721 00:35:01,739 --> 00:34:59,470 two three four minutes because we cannot 722 00:35:05,370 --> 00:35:01,749 stay in that kind of state for a long 723 00:35:10,049 --> 00:35:05,380 long time without you know severe 724 00:35:12,650 --> 00:35:10,059 cerebral damage and so and when they 725 00:35:15,450 --> 00:35:12,660 report something about their 726 00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:15,460 transcendental component of their 727 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:18,880 experience whether it be a meeting with 728 00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:21,729 a beautiful being a flight or meeting 729 00:35:26,370 --> 00:35:23,920 with the Seas friends or relatives and 730 00:35:27,569 --> 00:35:26,380 so on and so forth that from a 731 00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:27,579 scientific point of view we cannot 732 00:35:34,109 --> 00:35:31,569 validate it or not we can only attempt 733 00:35:37,769 --> 00:35:34,119 to validate what the report from a 734 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:37,779 perceptual point of view so the the out 735 00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:40,210 of body component of this experience 736 00:35:46,849 --> 00:35:43,839 that can be corroborated by external 737 00:35:51,569 --> 00:35:46,859 source and it's been done in a few cases 738 00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:51,579 by members of the medical staff so but 739 00:35:57,329 --> 00:35:55,119 of course like you said what they are 740 00:36:01,979 --> 00:35:57,339 reporting from a subjective point of 741 00:36:05,549 --> 00:36:01,989 view seems to you know validate some 742 00:36:09,739 --> 00:36:05,559 spiritual traditions seems to provide 743 00:36:15,209 --> 00:36:09,749 certain evidence that there might be 744 00:36:17,489 --> 00:36:15,219 spiritual realms out there and I thought 745 00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:17,499 and I'm open-minded to this kind of 746 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:19,630 suggestion and like I said I'm as a 747 00:36:26,069 --> 00:36:23,890 spiritual person and and this would not 748 00:36:28,380 --> 00:36:26,079 surprise me at all if there's a there 749 00:36:31,529 --> 00:36:28,390 are a multitude of spiritual realms that 750 00:36:34,469 --> 00:36:31,539 we don't know yet and I don't think it's 751 00:36:39,029 --> 00:36:34,479 it's not scientific to have that kind of 752 00:36:41,539 --> 00:36:39,039 point of view you know it's uh it's 753 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:41,549 human isn't it I mean that's the part of 754 00:36:47,099 --> 00:36:43,890 acknowledge that these are fundamental 755 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:47,109 human questions that the whole endeavor 756 00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:49,450 of science that's why it came about was 757 00:36:53,459 --> 00:36:51,700 to understand when we are what place we 758 00:36:55,469 --> 00:36:53,469 are what place we have in the universe 759 00:36:57,390 --> 00:36:55,479 what happens to us when we die these are 760 00:37:00,180 --> 00:36:57,400 the ultimate questions so I think that 761 00:37:01,950 --> 00:37:00,190 does couldn't be more fairly put that 762 00:37:04,609 --> 00:37:01,960 these are real concerns that we all have 763 00:37:07,830 --> 00:37:04,619 we have to acknowledge yes and also 764 00:37:13,110 --> 00:37:07,840 spiritual experiences have been report 765 00:37:16,340 --> 00:37:13,120 across all traditions cultures and since 766 00:37:19,170 --> 00:37:16,350 the beginning of time you know so you 767 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:19,180 really do exist from a subjective point 768 00:37:23,220 --> 00:37:22,210 of view now we don't have the of course 769 00:37:25,650 --> 00:37:23,230 we ought to have a scientific 770 00:37:28,830 --> 00:37:25,660 explanation for the these experiences 771 00:37:31,410 --> 00:37:28,840 yet but what I'm saying is that we we 772 00:37:34,530 --> 00:37:31,420 need to remain open-minded regarding 773 00:37:37,620 --> 00:37:34,540 this aspect very good near the end of 774 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:37,630 your book brain Wars you talk about a 775 00:37:42,930 --> 00:37:41,410 shift in consciousness and I'd like you 776 00:37:45,870 --> 00:37:42,940 to talk about that and whether you 777 00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:45,880 really think number one that is likely 778 00:37:51,060 --> 00:37:48,730 that can come about we are so a meshed 779 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:51,070 we are so married to this materialism 780 00:37:56,850 --> 00:37:54,490 can we really get beyond it and question 781 00:37:58,740 --> 00:37:56,860 two related to that is how might that 782 00:38:01,160 --> 00:37:58,750 come about is it going to be an 783 00:38:06,690 --> 00:38:01,170 evolutionary change or does it require a 784 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:06,700 radical revolutionary shift well there's 785 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:09,610 a coup I should I can't say that at 786 00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:12,010 least in my own field there's an 787 00:38:18,260 --> 00:38:15,730 increasing number of scientists and also 788 00:38:21,810 --> 00:38:18,270 in other disciplines changing the old 789 00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:21,820 materialist worldview so it's done not 790 00:38:27,180 --> 00:38:24,730 only by scientists but also by 791 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:27,190 philosophers themselves so in the last 792 00:38:33,450 --> 00:38:31,090 few years we've seen books came out you 793 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:33,460 know about the waning of materialism and 794 00:38:40,020 --> 00:38:38,050 so on and so forth and so now several 795 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:40,030 different scientists are starting to 796 00:38:45,350 --> 00:38:42,730 question this so so we're in a 797 00:38:49,010 --> 00:38:45,360 transition period like I said before and 798 00:38:52,890 --> 00:38:49,020 in certain circles scientists are 799 00:38:55,940 --> 00:38:52,900 creating sorts of Union we're getting 800 00:39:01,980 --> 00:38:55,950 together or trained getting organized 801 00:39:05,700 --> 00:39:01,990 and for instance there's a special issue 802 00:39:07,590 --> 00:39:05,710 of a journal which a main chain journal 803 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:07,600 in neuroscience called frontiers and 804 00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:10,450 human neuroscience and next year there 805 00:39:15,690 --> 00:39:12,730 will be a special issue about the 806 00:39:18,570 --> 00:39:15,700 possibility of non-local mind and this 807 00:39:20,790 --> 00:39:18,580 is a sign of time because only 10 years 808 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:20,800 ago or 15 20 years ago this would have 809 00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:21,490 not 810 00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:23,710 possible at all so now it's becoming 811 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:27,760 possible to discuss these important 812 00:39:34,890 --> 00:39:30,810 issues publicly and even to challenge 813 00:39:37,130 --> 00:39:34,900 the main streams you openly overtly so 814 00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:37,140 that this was not possible at all before 815 00:39:44,540 --> 00:39:40,510 so there's there's a progress regarding 816 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:44,550 this that this evolution in our field 817 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:50,050 and so so I think that there eventually 818 00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:53,050 will be another river a big revolution 819 00:39:59,450 --> 00:39:56,800 in science and this will be about mind 820 00:40:02,940 --> 00:39:59,460 and consciousness and the same kind of 821 00:40:05,010 --> 00:40:02,950 revolution that they've had about 100 822 00:40:07,290 --> 00:40:05,020 years ago in physics from classical 823 00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:07,300 physics to quantum physics will have the 824 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:10,240 probably the same you know in our own 825 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:15,130 field and at the same time in parallel 826 00:40:19,140 --> 00:40:16,690 of course like you said at the beginning 827 00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:19,150 of the interview if you talk to lay 828 00:40:23,100 --> 00:40:21,910 people to most people did you not 829 00:40:25,140 --> 00:40:23,110 believe that they are strictly 830 00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:25,150 biological robots that they don't have 831 00:40:30,330 --> 00:40:28,000 any influence over their brain activity 832 00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:30,340 or what's happening in the body and so 833 00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:34,240 on and so forth and so it won't be 834 00:40:43,550 --> 00:40:39,580 difficult if there's the start of really 835 00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:43,560 a transition in science within science 836 00:40:51,930 --> 00:40:48,609 it will go quickly because the rest of 837 00:40:55,790 --> 00:40:51,940 the world you know is very sympathetic 838 00:40:58,740 --> 00:40:55,800 regarding and non materialist view of 839 00:41:01,140 --> 00:40:58,750 consciousness and a human life of the 840 00:41:03,690 --> 00:41:01,150 universe right very good very good point 841 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:03,700 so dr. Beauregard tell us a little bit 842 00:41:08,130 --> 00:41:05,410 about the research that you're currently 843 00:41:09,660 --> 00:41:08,140 engaged in and also if you want to tell 844 00:41:12,030 --> 00:41:09,670 us anything else we can find out about 845 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:12,040 the book that'd be great too so what are 846 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:15,930 you working on nowadays well I'm doing 847 00:41:23,730 --> 00:41:20,890 I'm doing brain imaging experiments 848 00:41:25,620 --> 00:41:23,740 regarding some types of felted well 849 00:41:30,330 --> 00:41:25,630 altered states of consciousness and 850 00:41:33,060 --> 00:41:30,340 especially spiritual consciousness so 851 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:33,070 that's one thing I'm also investigating 852 00:41:38,990 --> 00:41:34,770 the capacity of 853 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:39,000 the human mind to influence or to 854 00:41:45,260 --> 00:41:42,330 control the activity of regions involved 855 00:41:48,650 --> 00:41:45,270 in emotional responses so it's called 856 00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:48,660 emotion regulation so that's that's one 857 00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:51,240 aspect but from a theoretical point of 858 00:41:56,810 --> 00:41:54,390 view I'm also in the process of 859 00:41:59,060 --> 00:41:56,820 developing a new theory about the role 860 00:42:02,810 --> 00:41:59,070 and the impact of mining consciousness 861 00:42:04,010 --> 00:42:02,820 in nature great we want to tip your hand 862 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:04,020 a little bit and tell us what you're 863 00:42:09,740 --> 00:42:06,690 thinking and general wealthy i'm 864 00:42:12,290 --> 00:42:09,750 planning to present this this theory in 865 00:42:14,750 --> 00:42:12,300 this special issue that will be 866 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:14,760 published next year in the frontiers of 867 00:42:23,410 --> 00:42:19,170 human neuroscience man well basic ideas 868 00:42:26,090 --> 00:42:23,420 about that it's my consciousness are 869 00:42:29,630 --> 00:42:26,100 irreducible it cannot be reduced matter 870 00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:29,640 they are fundamental in the universe as 871 00:42:37,580 --> 00:42:32,160 much as the fundamental forces of 872 00:42:40,130 --> 00:42:37,590 physics and the you know they're so so 873 00:42:42,890 --> 00:42:40,140 they are as important as what we call 874 00:42:47,090 --> 00:42:42,900 space time and also the the physical 875 00:42:50,060 --> 00:42:47,100 world and so what I'm planning to do is 876 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:50,070 simply to demonstrate that from an 877 00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:52,530 empirical point of view so I'm 878 00:43:00,550 --> 00:42:55,040 presenting series of empirical evidence 879 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:00,560 showing that mental processes and events 880 00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:04,410 exert a great influence within the body 881 00:43:10,970 --> 00:43:07,680 the brain and body but also outside of 882 00:43:14,030 --> 00:43:10,980 the physical body beyond the confines of 883 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:14,040 the brain in the body so in essence 884 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:16,890 that's the gist of it wow that's 885 00:43:21,860 --> 00:43:19,890 exciting it's a great teaser for the for 886 00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:21,870 the upcoming article and will certainly 887 00:43:26,900 --> 00:43:24,510 look for that you know what the good 888 00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:26,910 news is that when I'm presenting these 889 00:43:34,250 --> 00:43:31,920 things you know too for instance can be 890 00:43:37,100 --> 00:43:34,260 Department of Psychiatry or even to some 891 00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:37,110 neuro scientist and these days now they 892 00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:39,510 are more willing to listen you know when 893 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:42,240 to reflect about these things and like i 894 00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:44,490 said before 10 years ago this would not 895 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:46,800 have been possible at all so it's a sign 896 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:48,610 that things are start 897 00:43:54,420 --> 00:43:51,490 to change really right that's very 898 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:54,430 interesting to hear from someone who's 899 00:43:59,460 --> 00:43:56,770 on the front line of this work like you 900 00:44:01,200 --> 00:43:59,470 are I really value that opinion and I 901 00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:01,210 think folks will will take heart in that 902 00:44:05,790 --> 00:44:03,760 so the book again is brain Wars the 903 00:44:07,890 --> 00:44:05,800 scientific battle over the existence of 904 00:44:10,590 --> 00:44:07,900 the mine and the proof that will change 905 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:10,600 the way we live our lives dr. Mario 906 00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:12,490 Beauregard thank you again so much for 907 00:44:19,050 --> 00:44:15,580 joining me today on skeptic oh thanks 908 00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:19,060 very much headaches thanks again to dr. 909 00:44:23,460 --> 00:44:21,190 Mario Beauregard for joining me today on 910 00:44:25,230 --> 00:44:23,470 skeptic Oh a couple of questions I'd tee 911 00:44:27,330 --> 00:44:25,240 up from this interview the first would 912 00:44:29,130 --> 00:44:27,340 have to do with the placebo effect I 913 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:29,140 haven't really talked a lot about the 914 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:31,690 placebo effect on this show but I think 915 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:33,610 dr. Beauregard does a nice job of 916 00:44:39,660 --> 00:44:37,090 showing how it to adds to the mounting 917 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:39,670 evidence against scientific materialism 918 00:44:46,020 --> 00:44:42,370 so I'd be interested to hear how you 919 00:44:48,030 --> 00:44:46,030 pull that apart in how you process some 920 00:44:50,490 --> 00:44:48,040 of the research that he's pointing to in 921 00:44:52,530 --> 00:44:50,500 that area and the second question would 922 00:44:55,530 --> 00:44:52,540 be returning to a topic we talk about 923 00:44:58,560 --> 00:44:55,540 frequently and that is the paradigm 924 00:45:01,020 --> 00:44:58,570 shift so dr. Beauregard is suggesting 925 00:45:03,390 --> 00:45:01,030 that hey things really are moving in the 926 00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:03,400 right direction and that this science 927 00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:06,250 which seems pretty self-evident to most 928 00:45:11,130 --> 00:45:09,250 of us is gaining traction I'd like to 929 00:45:14,250 --> 00:45:11,140 think that's true but I think embedded 930 00:45:16,830 --> 00:45:14,260 in that belief is a misunderstanding of 931 00:45:20,130 --> 00:45:16,840 just how powerful the forces that would 932 00:45:22,140 --> 00:45:20,140 resist that really are and the fact that 933 00:45:24,660 --> 00:45:22,150 they haven't really been challenged to a 934 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:24,670 great degree right now makes it hard to 935 00:45:29,310 --> 00:45:27,010 estimate just how hard their pushback 936 00:45:31,770 --> 00:45:29,320 might be anyways I'm tipping my hand as 937 00:45:34,110 --> 00:45:31,780 to my take on that but I think it'd be 938 00:45:36,510 --> 00:45:34,120 interesting to dredge that up and debate 939 00:45:38,580 --> 00:45:36,520 that one more time and the place to do 940 00:45:40,230 --> 00:45:38,590 that of course is either in the forum or 941 00:45:44,190 --> 00:45:40,240 on the comments section of the website 942 00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:44,200 the website address again is ske pti que 943 00:45:49,860 --> 00:45:48,160 o com so there you'll find a link to the 944 00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:49,870 forum you or you can add your comment 945 00:45:54,990 --> 00:45:51,760 right there on the website and you'll 946 00:45:57,210 --> 00:45:55,000 also find links to all of our almost 200 947 00:45:59,940 --> 00:45:57,220 previous shows so be sure to check that 948 00:46:02,490 --> 00:45:59,950 out and connect with us let us know your 949 00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:02,500 thoughts on the show and in particular 950 00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:05,200 killer on these topics that dr. 951 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:07,510 Beauregard has brought to us well that's 952 00:46:11,730 --> 00:46:09,850 going to do it for this episode I have a 953 00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:11,740 number of interesting shows coming up